Episode Transcript
[00:00:25] Speaker A: And welcome to small publishing in a big universe. I am your host, La Jacob. This month we have a few books that would be interesting for your office parties. Corporate catharsis, the work from Home edition, because, you know, we've all been there, is available in hardcover, paperback, and ebook editions. Coming out from Dragon Gems this month, r one by Mike Clark, Ham and Megs by Gary Battershell, and the credo of Comrade January by Robert Bagnall. Also coming out this month from paper Angel Press, the Fault Zone detachment anthology. The San Francisco Peninsula branch of the California Writers Club put together an anthology every two years based on one word, and in this case, it was the word detachment. A lot of authors did poetry, fiction, speculative fiction, and all sorts of prose.
This month we have a panel. It was the first time. Those are authors that have just recently been published, and we talk about their feelings before, during, and after.
So, Saparsis, the work from Home edition the pandemic came and the world changed. Lives have changed. Work has changed. The boundaries between reality and fantasy have become as blurred as those between life and work. Corporate catharsis, the work from Home edition gives you the opportunity to explore the impact of the COVID pandemic on your personal and professional life through fiction. For more information, see their website, waterdragonpublishing.com.
Corporatecatharsis.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Welcome to small publishing in a big universe. I am the guest host, Brian Buell, and today we're going to be doing the new author experience.
With me we have Eddie Knight, Daniel Fliterbaum, Hugh McCormack, and Greg Stone. Welcome, everybody. The first question is, how long did it take for you to get from the first draft to your published book? I realized that for at least a couple of us, that question may be a little bit different, but go ahead and just answer it however it makes most sense. And let's start with Eddie.
[00:03:15] Speaker C: Short answer. I was working from full speed starting on my first draft from about October of 2022 until self published July 4 of 2023. So it was a very quick turnaround. I was angry writing.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Daniel, how about you?
[00:03:30] Speaker D: Let's see. I started writing in November of 2016, and my book wasn't published till August of this year. So a little more than six and a half years of writing.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: And Hugh, how about you? How long did it take for you to go from first draft to published story about to be a published story?
[00:03:49] Speaker E: Yes. Well, it was short story. Took two and a half years to actually draft it, and then around five months earlier this year to find a publisher for it. And then it will take about five months from acceptance to the expected publication date for the anthology.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Great. And Greg, I'm going to ask it in two ways, because how long did it take to get from their first draft to your first published fiction book? But then, since this isn't your first actual published book, how does that compare?
[00:04:21] Speaker F: Let me take the first question first.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: With the fiction book.
[00:04:25] Speaker F: I started in 2021 and wrote what will become the first novel in the series. But the one that was published in January of 2023 probably worked on that for about a year, and I'm still working on the first novel in the series. So over the past two years or so, I've written two novels. The second installment in the series is actually a prequel to the first. With regard to the two business books that I wrote prior to my first novel. The first one came out in 2016, the second one in 2018, I would say that it took six or eight months of intense work to write each of them. And nonfiction is a totally different game. It's frustrating because if I never see a footnote again, it'll be too soon for myself.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: I'll go ahead and answer the question. One of the reasons I've guest hosting is I'm a new author myself. I started work on the repossessed Ghost as a nanorimo in 2013, and I worked on it for off and on for about ten years before I met Steven Redecki with Water Dragon and then had it published this year in July 2023. So it was about ten years from start of the first draft to publication. I asked everybody about first draft to publishing, but actually, I haven't really asked you about your books at all. So, Greg, do you want to take a couple of moments just to give, like, the quick elevator pitch of your book?
[00:05:55] Speaker F: Sure. The first mystery novel, which again, is going to be number two in the series, is called dangerous inspiration. It was published in January of 2023. The detective is named Ronan Mazini. He's a former cop, and one of the distinguishing characteristics for him is that he suffers from synesthesia. I shouldn't say suffer, because synesthesia is a condition, not a disease. It basically means that the senses cross over. So this is kind of a low level superpower for him. The story takes place at a remote artist colony in northeast Vermont. He's accepted there as a writer, and as you might imagine, strange and violent things start to happen. The second book, called Deadline on arrival, is set in the milieu of the news business. It has to do with a serial killer turned loose in the news business. I'm following the old adage of write what you know and then some.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: Hugh, how about you? What's your story about?
[00:06:57] Speaker E: Basically, it's from a first person perspective of a donkey. It's set in around 1400, and the donkey is basically discovering how to be content in his situation. So it's about freedom and happiness and this kind of thing.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: That's great. Daniel, what about yours? What's yours about?
[00:07:19] Speaker D: My book, smash the world's shell is about Ellen and Shard. Ellen is a human teenager. She's 17, and one night she wakes up in the middle of the night to find there's a ring on her shelf. She puts it on, twists it a few times, and she finds herself transported miles and miles away into the middle of the wilderness, where she meets shard. Shard is an adolescent dragon. After initially getting off on the wrong foot, they actually end up becoming friends. This is a big deal because it's set in a world where humans and dragons are mortal enemies.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: Sounds great. And, Eddie, what's your Pitch?
[00:07:56] Speaker C: Ishmael is a technical leader in a large organization who just wants to raise his family and do a good job at work. But he keeps getting promoted, and now that his company has entered the geopolitical arena, his life gets turned upside down by a series of cyberattacks, and things eventually spill over into the real world. Spoiler alert. It is a series about AI and all the drama that can ensue from the technologies that we have around us right now, available today.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: I'll go ahead and give mine. Done it many, many times, so I have it fairly well rehearsed. But the repossessed ghost is about a young repo man from New Orleans who discovers he's psychic when he finds a ghost in the back of a car he's recently repossessed. When he becomes the prime suspect in her murder, he must leave the life he knows in his home, learn to use his abilities to solve her murder, to help her find rest and hopefully keep himself from going to jail. Let me ask about the inspirations. So, Greg, you specifically talked about writing what you know. What is it that pushed you to write fiction?
[00:09:01] Speaker F: Well, I always wanted to write novels, but it took me a while to get around to it. I've written eight or nine or ten screenplays, only one of which was produced. It was an indie that I did, which is a whole other story, but it just got harder and harder to raise money for films. So I finally said, why not just write a novel, which is what you always wanted to do anyway? And it's a lot cheaper than producing a film. All you need is an idea or two and a computer. So I've written about what I know, but then some. The news business is something I know well, but the first book about an artist's colony is not necessarily a realm that I know well of. Do a little bit of research and let your imagination run wild. So I don't think there are any rules on this, necessarily.
[00:09:49] Speaker B: Hugh, how about you? What were your inspirations?
[00:09:52] Speaker E: Well, I've always liked writing from a young age, and basically because I'm self employed, I was finding that in the winter months, I had very little work, so a lot of time. So this was around five years ago. I started researching, initially researching how to write, and then started writing short stories to really occupy myself during the winter. And, well, it's gone from there, really.
[00:10:17] Speaker D: Daniel, how about you for smash the world's shell, specifically? I've always loved stories about people coming together and being friends. I kind of wanted this to be about growing up, and I realized dragons. Dragons lay eggs. There can be a thing about breaking out of your shell. And it all just kind of went from there.
[00:10:35] Speaker C: And then, Eddie, my biggest inspiration was right at the moment, before I started writing. But the story idea, the concept, had been percolating for a while, because I wanted to write an AI drama that takes a little bit of a different spin, where it's not a good AI or a bad AI, but it's just an artificial superintelligence that we have to live with. But that was right about the time that chat GBT went public, and that was the only thing I could think about, because every premise for my story is centered around, what if all these technologies that I'm working with are built on top of hyper advanced large language models? And then a hyper advanced large language model went public, and my story has to come out now. This has to come out. So that was my biggest, biggest driver, was, I need to get this story told.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: What was your emotional state as you're writing it? And then how does it compare to on the other side, now that you've gotten the publication deal? Which emotional state was there? If it's now published, Hughes is still on the way, so his answer is going to be a little bit different. So, Daniel, what's your emotional state before publication process?
[00:11:45] Speaker D: During and after I submitted to Water Dragon Publishing, I must have submitted to about 20 or 30 different literary agents trying to go through a big five publisher. I got basically zero interest. I think one, maybe two agents gave me something more than just a standard form letter. And even then, it was just a word here or there where you could tell they put in a personal touch that was pretty discouraging. I remember about, I think it's about eleven months ago now. I got the letter from Water Dragon Publishing. There was an email and I had to stop myself from jumping up and down. I was so excited. I called my best friend. He was excited. I told my parents they were excited. Everyone was really great at Water Dragon Publishing. They were just so understanding of how anxious I was.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
[00:12:30] Speaker D: I must have been so overbearing, constantly asking, okay, when's the next step of the process happening? When's the next step of the process happening? They even let me reach out to the specific artist I wanted for my cover art. Of course, in the days leading up to the publication about them, I was to the moon with anxiety. I had myself all kinds of convinced that my book wasn't good. Nobody was going to like it. What was I thinking? I was going to tank my career if I started off with something this terrible? Even once I got published, I was still feeling pretty down on myself. I wasn't really able to feel proud of myself until I started getting positive editorial and reader reviews. And it just sort of hit me. Oh, my gosh, people really like this book, and I put so much work into it, and it's personal to me. I think I might be a real writer.
[00:13:17] Speaker B: I think a lot of us are smiling, nodding our head. Some similar states. Hugh, so I know that your first short story that's coming out in January, so you're not on the other side of the publication yet. But how about you? What has been your state of emotions as you've gone through this process?
[00:13:33] Speaker E: Obviously, I knew when I started sending short stories to publishers, I was going to get a lot of rejections. So I was actually tried to set it up so that the negative impact of all these rejections would be lessened by not sending them, not submitting them until I had four stories. So I was sending all four at the same time. And yes, each rejection that comes in knocks you down, but I was just trying to send so many to suppress the negative feelings. To be honest, when I got the acceptance, I just didn't believe it at first. I just thought maybe it was a mistake because it's such a long process. I've been going for about five years on this, and suddenly you're getting somewhere. You've got to a certain standard. Yeah, clearly it was a big moment. That's where I am now.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Eddie, how about you? What's been your emotions throughout this process?
[00:14:24] Speaker C: A lot of things that these guys have been saying has definitely resonated a lot. I think, for me, my personality has helped kind of buffer me a little bit, because I definitely am normal humanity in this way. When I stop and think about it, I get super scared. I get super concerned. I get super worried. I'm overthinking every possible angle. But the way that I have learned to counter that over the years is that I just don't stop long enough to worry about it. And so I was just consistently polishing the book, editing it, talking to somebody about it, getting feedback, getting somebody else's book to beta read, to do that for that season, and then going all the way into the publishing process.
[00:15:01] Speaker D: Cool.
[00:15:02] Speaker C: This is going live in print on July 4. How do I make sure there's an audiobook going live at exactly the same time? So now I'm going to be working with the COVID artist and the recording narrator. Not giving yourself room to breathe is often a very valid thing to avoid. It's like, hey, give yourself room to breathe. Give yourself room to think. Do things methodically. Mind your mental health.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:23] Speaker C: Yes. That's also not my style. Just kept plugging away through the whole thing, and mostly was able to dodge a lot of the feelings of overwhelming anxiety, mostly with the publishing.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: It was almost my outlet. Greg, how about you? So what's been an emotional state for the processes for you? Maybe contrast from your non fiction work versus the fiction work? Has there been any difference with you?
[00:15:45] Speaker F: For those, fiction and nonfiction are about as different as Zambia and Saskatchewan? In the non fiction world, the quality of the writing initially doesn't really matter. You don't have to write a book to sell it. You just write a sample chapter and an outline. And in particular, publishers want to know that you have the quote unquote platform from which you can sell it. Do you have expertise in the area? Do you have a website? Do you have followers on LinkedIn and Facebook and so on? So it's more about you than about the book itself? Ultimately, it is, of course, about the words, but the idea is that if you're not a great writer, they can fix that in editing. Whereas with fiction, it's all about the quality of the word. To tell you the process of getting the book into print would take a while. But suffice it to say that I did the same thing that you did. Daniel tried to find some agents and finally gave up. I had an agent who sat on the book for eight months. Eight months, may I repeat, eight months. And then said that he didn't think that he could place it because he doesn't do fiction. So I tried to find other agents, and then I said, the heck with it. And I got a list of publishers who were willing to look at unagented manuscripts. And within about two weeks, Stephen Radecki got in touch with me and said, we'd love your book. We'd like to publish it. And similar to you, Daniel, I had to scrape myself off the ceiling because I thought, wow, I didn't expect this so quickly, and isn't this wonderful? And it's been a great experience. I'm not dealing with Water Dragon, which is the arm of the company that deals mainly with Sci-Fi and fantasy. My book is published by paper Angel Press, which is the sister company. So I'm in a slightly different county than the rest of you are, but it's been a great experience, and they're very collaborative, as you said, I worked with the artist on the COVID and the first iteration she came up with wasn't exactly what I had in mind, and she did a 180. And I think the COVID is great. So it's all good. It's better than good.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: My emotional state for this whole process, like, ten years. I also went through the grinding of submissions and all the downsides that go along with that. So it's always been my dream to be an author. My parents gave me a very authorly name, Brian C. E. Buell. It seemed a shame and a waste not to use it like that. And I had all of the elation that you guys have described of just being completely outside myself with the prospect of, oh, my goodness, there's going to be a book with my name on it, and it's something I've worked so hard on. I'm so proud of this work, and it's actually going to be out there available for people. And then people liked it. Like, I'm wearing this Baitcon t shirt. This is where the pre release was. Somebody bought my book that weekend at the convention and finished it that weekend at the convention. They said they couldn't put it down. It was this huge compliment, and people were reading it, giving me this huge, amazing feedback, and I felt this huge, not only relief that this was out there, but vindication, because I had gone through those periods of time where I didn't believe in it as well.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: We would like to thank our guests for participating in our forum. It was the first time. If you want any more information or their contact information, please visit our website at spbu podcast.com.
It's that time of year again, so what are you going to get that person who is an author but not yet famous? Simple. You leave a review of their book. That's all that needs to be done. It's a free gift. So go to Goodreads, Amazon, or wherever you bought your book and just leave a review. Your author will love you for it.
Thanks again to our guest. We plan on publishing new episodes every second Wednesday of the month. Watch for new episodes around that time. To find out more about our featured products and books mentioned by our guest, please take a look at the SPBU marketplace at SPBu marketplace.com. Theme and ad music is provided by Melodyloops. If you want to know more about small publishing in a big universe, visit our website at spbu podcast.com. Send us your feedback by using the contact us link, tweet or X us at SPBU Podcast and like us on Facebook at SPBU Podcast. This podcast, edited by yours Truly, L. A. Jacob executive producer, is Stephen Redecki. Transcription services provided by yours truly Lisa Jacob this month's episode was sponsored by paper Angel Press and its imprint water dragon Publishing and unruly voices. You can hear our podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and most of your favorite podcast services. Thank you very much for listening and talk to you soon.
